Comments requested regarding autoserial

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Comments requested regarding autoserial

Pieter Lexis-2
Hi All,

We'd like to have your input on a topic we've been discussing
internally. In its current state, the autoserial functionality is
somewhat incomplete, badly documented and non-intuitive to use.

As such, we're currently on the fence on what to do with this feature.
In our opinion there are 2 options for autoserial going forward to
PowerDNS 4.0:

1. Removal of the functionality
2. Making it a correct and supported feature

As such, we'd like to have your input on this topic. Do you use the
autoserial functionality? If so, tell us how you us it.

You can comment on this issue either by replying to this email, or if
you prefer in private by emailing to [hidden email].

--
Pieter Lexis
PowerDNS.COM BV - https://www.powerdns.com

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Re: Comments requested regarding autoserial

a b-38
> We'd like to have your input on a topic we've been discussing
> internally. In its current state, the autoserial functionality is

> somewhat incomplete, badly documented and non-intuitive to use.
>
> As such, we're currently on the fence on what to do with this feature.
> In our opinion there are 2 options for autoserial going forward to
> PowerDNS 4.0:
>
> 1. Removal of the functionality
> 2. Making it a correct and supported feature
>
> As such, we'd like to have your input on this topic. Do you use the
> autoserial functionality? If so, tell us how you us it.

I do not, precisely because it is poorly documented.

I think it would be ideal if the serial number is correctly incremented every time a change is made to the records table.

I use the "oracle" backend, with supermasters and superslaves, and explicitly, by design, do not use the database replication, so that my DNS servers can interface with any other type of DNS software via the AXFR requests.

The way I solved the automatic AXFR from a supermaster to a superslave is with CREATE TRIGGER, and basically wrote one or two custom triggers which automatically update the serial number inside of the SOA records in the records table.

1. Autocommit is off;
2. UPDATE or INSERT to the records table happens;
3. UPDATE to the relevant serial fields in the zones table happens; the database ON INSERT OR UPDATE trigger modifies the serial number substring in the SOA records table.
4. COMMIT triggers an AXFR.

I am still not sure my way is actually, the best way; I am not even certain my semantics are correct, but if you would like the PL/SQL trigger code, please let me know and you are welcome to it.

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Re: Comments requested regarding autoserial

Nicky Gerritsen
In reply to this post by Pieter Lexis-2
Hi,

Autoserial is the fact that you can set the serial to 0 for a zone and
pdns updates it automatically, right? The docs seem to suggest this.

If so then, yes I am using it because I use an automated system that
inserts records into my MySQL backend and using autoserial I do not have
to calculate the serial myself.
If this functionality would disappear I'd have to create this myself...

Regards,

Nicky

On 14-07-15 13:56, Pieter Lexis wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We'd like to have your input on a topic we've been discussing
> internally. In its current state, the autoserial functionality is
> somewhat incomplete, badly documented and non-intuitive to use.
>
> As such, we're currently on the fence on what to do with this feature.
> In our opinion there are 2 options for autoserial going forward to
> PowerDNS 4.0:
>
> 1. Removal of the functionality
> 2. Making it a correct and supported feature
>
> As such, we'd like to have your input on this topic. Do you use the
> autoserial functionality? If so, tell us how you us it.
>
> You can comment on this issue either by replying to this email, or if
> you prefer in private by emailing to [hidden email].
>


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Re: Comments requested regarding autoserial

David Jones
In reply to this post by Pieter Lexis-2
I use Python to update the pdns database from other sources and it has to calculate and update the serial.  We use PowerAdmin as well which does the same thing.  It would be better if this were internal to pdns to centralize it for consistency.  We may end up writing our own web administration front end and this would be one less thing to deal with in our code.  It would be very beneficial to the HTTP API users too.  There are some new web admin tools out there starting to use the HTTP API to be database agnostic which would benefit from the serial being handled internally.
Thanks for the great software,
Dave

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Pieter Lexis <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 6:56 AM
To: pdns-users Users
Subject: [Pdns-users] Comments requested regarding autoserial

Hi All,

We'd like to have your input on a topic we've been discussing
internally. In its current state, the autoserial functionality is
somewhat incomplete, badly documented and non-intuitive to use.

As such, we're currently on the fence on what to do with this feature.
In our opinion there are 2 options for autoserial going forward to
PowerDNS 4.0:

1. Removal of the functionality
2. Making it a correct and supported feature

As such, we'd like to have your input on this topic. Do you use the
autoserial functionality? If so, tell us how you us it.

You can comment on this issue either by replying to this email, or if
you prefer in private by emailing to [hidden email].

--
Pieter Lexis
PowerDNS.COM BV - https://www.powerdns.com

_______________________________________________
Pdns-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mailman.powerdns.com/mailman/listinfo/pdns-users

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Re: Comments requested regarding autoserial

Chris Moody
In reply to this post by Pieter Lexis-2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Please do NOT remove this feature.  I love this behavior and use it at
all our installs.  It simply needs a bit better documentation.

It saves unnecessary effort and programming logic.  Any humans
updating records don't have to remember to update the serial for it to
take effect (ie, less 'advanced' engineering resources are necessary
to be able to maintain DNS data - think: "uh, I forgot") and we don't
have to write in any coding logic to calculate and increment serials
anytime records get updated programmatically (I know, I know - dead
stupid simple to write...but still).

If we wanted explicit control over serial values, we'd write our own
code to enforce specifics...but since serial number values have no
more meaning to us than simply triggering zone transfers/updates, the
autoserial function rocks.

Our other favorite feature is supermasters...making zone distribution
dead simple as well...but I digress.

Our vote at Node-Nine is to please leave the autoserial functionality
intact.

Thanks,
- -Chris

On 7/14/15 4:56 AM, Pieter Lexis wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We'd like to have your input on a topic we've been discussing
> internally. In its current state, the autoserial functionality is
> somewhat incomplete, badly documented and non-intuitive to use.
>
> As such, we're currently on the fence on what to do with this
> feature. In our opinion there are 2 options for autoserial going
> forward to PowerDNS 4.0:
>
> 1. Removal of the functionality 2. Making it a correct and
> supported feature
>
> As such, we'd like to have your input on this topic. Do you use
> the autoserial functionality? If so, tell us how you us it.
>
> You can comment on this issue either by replying to this email, or
> if you prefer in private by emailing to
> [hidden email].
>
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Re: Comments requested regarding autoserial

AJ McKee-2
Hi all,

I think the biggest issue is the documentation around auto-serial. While I don't use it myself, I can see how installs can become very dependent on it quickly. 

My vote would be to retain the functionality as much as possible or any new feature be backward compat/emulate the behaviour of current auto serial.

TIA
AJ

On 14 July 2015 at 20:15, Chris Moody <[hidden email]> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Please do NOT remove this feature.  I love this behavior and use it at
all our installs.  It simply needs a bit better documentation.

It saves unnecessary effort and programming logic.  Any humans
updating records don't have to remember to update the serial for it to
take effect (ie, less 'advanced' engineering resources are necessary
to be able to maintain DNS data - think: "uh, I forgot") and we don't
have to write in any coding logic to calculate and increment serials
anytime records get updated programmatically (I know, I know - dead
stupid simple to write...but still).

If we wanted explicit control over serial values, we'd write our own
code to enforce specifics...but since serial number values have no
more meaning to us than simply triggering zone transfers/updates, the
autoserial function rocks.

Our other favorite feature is supermasters...making zone distribution
dead simple as well...but I digress.

Our vote at Node-Nine is to please leave the autoserial functionality
intact.

Thanks,
- -Chris

On 7/14/15 4:56 AM, Pieter Lexis wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> We'd like to have your input on a topic we've been discussing
> internally. In its current state, the autoserial functionality is
> somewhat incomplete, badly documented and non-intuitive to use.
>
> As such, we're currently on the fence on what to do with this
> feature. In our opinion there are 2 options for autoserial going
> forward to PowerDNS 4.0:
>
> 1. Removal of the functionality 2. Making it a correct and
> supported feature
>
> As such, we'd like to have your input on this topic. Do you use
> the autoserial functionality? If so, tell us how you us it.
>
> You can comment on this issue either by replying to this email, or
> if you prefer in private by emailing to
> [hidden email].
>
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_______________________________________________
Pdns-users mailing list
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--
AJ McKee
phone: +353 83 1130 545
profile:  http://linkedin.com/in/ajmkee
jid:       [hidden email]
blog:    http://aj.mc-kee.com/
twitter: @ajmckee

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Re: Comments requested regarding autoserial

Curtis Maurand
In reply to this post by Pieter Lexis-2
Keep it and please document it.  It makes updating a zone a snap.

--Curtis

On 7/14/2015 7:56 AM, Pieter Lexis wrote:
Hi All,

We'd like to have your input on a topic we've been discussing
internally. In its current state, the autoserial functionality is
somewhat incomplete, badly documented and non-intuitive to use.

As such, we're currently on the fence on what to do with this feature.
In our opinion there are 2 options for autoserial going forward to
PowerDNS 4.0:

1. Removal of the functionality
2. Making it a correct and supported feature

As such, we'd like to have your input on this topic. Do you use the
autoserial functionality? If so, tell us how you us it.

You can comment on this issue either by replying to this email, or if
you prefer in private by emailing to [hidden email].


--
Curtis Maurand
[hidden email]
207-252-7748

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Re: Comments requested regarding autoserial

Emiel van Berlo-2
We do not use this function, because it was poorly documented we wrote our own serialnumber update.

That said, we vote for #2

If it would be a correct and supported feature, would it still be able to do it yourself?

Regards,
Emiel.


On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Curtis Maurand <[hidden email]> wrote:
Keep it and please document it.  It makes updating a zone a snap.

--Curtis

On 7/14/2015 7:56 AM, Pieter Lexis wrote:
Hi All,

We'd like to have your input on a topic we've been discussing
internally. In its current state, the autoserial functionality is
somewhat incomplete, badly documented and non-intuitive to use.

As such, we're currently on the fence on what to do with this feature.
In our opinion there are 2 options for autoserial going forward to
PowerDNS 4.0:

1. Removal of the functionality
2. Making it a correct and supported feature

As such, we'd like to have your input on this topic. Do you use the
autoserial functionality? If so, tell us how you us it.

You can comment on this issue either by replying to this email, or if
you prefer in private by emailing to [hidden email].


--
Curtis Maurand
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:207-252-7748" target="_blank" value="+12072527748">207-252-7748

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Re: Comments requested regarding autoserial

James Cloos-9
In reply to this post by Chris Moody
I missed the original mail, so replying to one of the replies.

Autoserial is an vital feature and I found the documentation to be fully
usable.  I don't remember any aspect of it I would characterize, off
hand, as underdocumented.

It helps to add a trigger to the records table to update the change_date
column whenever a row is updated.  And a delete trigger to update the
change_date on either the soa or a dummy record.

Loosing this feature would be a significant regression and would make
zone maintenance more work than it should be.

A better change would be to do away with soa rows in records and replace
them with columns in the domains table for each of the components of an soa.

-JimC
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James Cloos <[hidden email]>         OpenPGP: 0x997A9F17ED7DAEA6

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